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[Music]

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hey guys how's it going welcome back to

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the youtube channel

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um i'm just waiting for for avi to join

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me

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um i actually made it a slight mistake

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and i'll hold my hands up to it i didn't

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realize that daylight savings had

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changed two days ago

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in in new york and so

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i got a message from avi an hour ago

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saying i'm i'm waiting on stream yards

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so i ran up to my office

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spoke to him and he graciously said no

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problem i'll come back in an hour so

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he's due due any moment so um

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yeah before we start though i'll just

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say

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um thank you to everybody watching live

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on youtube anybody watching this later

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date on youtube thank you so much

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and thank you to anybody listening to

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this on the anomalous podcast network um

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i really appreciate it um for anybody

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that is here live if we could just keep

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the the chat room mature and uh let's

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not get into any arguments or anything

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which i'm sure sure won't happen

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if you do have a question that you'd

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like me to possibly ask at the end of

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the interview for avi if you could leave

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that in capital letters and that should

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help me see it i've got so much going on

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in front of me

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um that would be great so yeah um

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i see some questions already coming in

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and

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yeah i'll i'll make a note of them but

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they may actually conflict with some of

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the ones that i've already got so so

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that's cool um let's see who we got here

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hey guys lara joss arno aaron r

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andre

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k alexander benji

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my brother

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thank you thank you guys for all being

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here

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anonymous rex uap experiences steph

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thank you so much guys

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um

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what else can we talk about until uh

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professor gets here jorney how's it

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going and for anybody that's not aware i

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recently made a trip to colombia to film

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a documentary series called

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phenomenology you can now go and

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subscribe to the youtube channel we have

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a trailer up we have a rough cuts video

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up already as well

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the uh the season starts on may the

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first

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so uh that'll be episode one

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um so yeah i'm really excited for

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everybody to see what we did out there

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um it's gonna be great i really hope you

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enjoy it um

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benji thank you so much thank you so

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much ann i really appreciate that

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and

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that's very very kind well guys my guest

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is here so i'm just going to give him a

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uh an introduction and then we'll bring

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him on and get this show on the road

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so

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avilo

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is the frank b baird jr professor of

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science at harvard university and

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best-selling author

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he received a phd in physics from the

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hebrew university of jerusalem in israel

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at age 24. he led the first

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international project supported by the

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strategic defense initiative and was

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subsequently a long-term member of the

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institute for advanced study at

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princeton he's written eight books on a

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wide range of topics including black

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holes the first stars the search for

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extraterrestrial life and the future of

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the universe

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he is the director of the institute for

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theory and computation within the

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harvard smithsonian center for

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astrophysics and also serves as the head

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of the galileo project

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he had been the longest serving chair of

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harvard's department of astronomy and

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the founding director of harvard's black

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hole initiative

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he is an elected fellow of the american

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academy of arts and sciences the

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american physical society and the

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international academy of astronautics he

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is a former member of the president's

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council of advisers on science and

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technology at the white house

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former chair of the board on physics and

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astronomy of the national academics

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sorry national academies and a current

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member of the advisory board for

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einstein visualized the impossible of

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the hebrew university he also chairs the

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advisory committee for the breakthrough

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star shot initiative and serves as the

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science theory director for all

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initiatives of the breakthrough prize

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foundation

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in 2012 time magazine selected loeb as

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one of the 25 most influential people in

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space and in 2020 he was selected among

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the 14 most inspiring israelis of the

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last decade

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please uh welcome

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avila avi how are you

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i'm doing great nice to see you vinnie

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um i have to apologize for the mistake i

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made earlier with regards to the time

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zone difference oh no time is relative

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according to einstein

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thank you so much

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um so i i appreciate you being here it

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really means a lot to me it's good to

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see you um so i'll try not to keep you

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too long so we'll jump straight into it

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um so basically we're mainly to talk

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about the galileo project um it's been

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probably getting on for around a year

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now since you you announced it and

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you've built this strong research team

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advisory board and a large affiliate

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group featuring many professionals and

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scientists

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but during this first almost year have

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you have the conversations in the halls

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of harvard and elsewhere have you felt

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the stigma and taboo lift at all

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surrounding this topic

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um well a bit i should say

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first of all

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by now we have more than 100 scientists

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engaged in the galileo project it was

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announced only

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um eight months ago or so

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uh seven months ago and uh actually we

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are planning uh in the summer it was

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announced in at the end of july 2021 so

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um exactly a year

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uh later we are planning to have the

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first in-person meeting of the galileo

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project

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and

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actually

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by then we hope to have the first

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telescope system on the roof of the

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harvard college observatory and have

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some data and some analysis of our

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artificial intelligence algorithms

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just to demonstrate that

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we can take a video of the sky in

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different wavelengths infrared visible

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light radio and also audio

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so basically make a movie of the sky and

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analyze it

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so that

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once we're happy with this telescope

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system we can make copies of it and make

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it put it in different locations and

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i really hope that this first in-person

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meeting where we will demonstrate the

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the fact that the telescope works

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um that that would

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provide a

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brainstorming session where all my

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members of the gallery project will

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think ahead about the next phase and

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starting to collect data because it's

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all about getting evidence you see the

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the thing that defines the galileo

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project is that we're not giving up on

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exotic explanations the scientific

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community basically

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attempts to interpret anything seen on

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the sky as being natural without

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considering other options and we are

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allowing other options

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to be possible it's not as if we have a

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prejudice or

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um

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you know a a

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wishful thinking or anything it's just

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that we are willing to follow the data

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let the telescopes guide us because

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that's the lesson that we learned from

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galileo galilei four centuries ago he

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was telling the philosophers look

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through my telescope and they said no we

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know that

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the sun moves around the earth there is

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no point in doing that and not only that

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they didn't want others to listen to

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this

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first scientist of modern science and

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they put him in house arrest and today

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they would have cancelled him on social

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media so we learned an important lesson

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that you know nowadays when we launch a

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a

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something else

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but the actual reality that we all share

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to learn about it with all its pimples

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you know it's just like you know people

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prefer to put makeup on reality so that

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we don't see

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uh the things that are not so pleasant

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for us that like we are not at the

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center of the universe you know that's

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not so pleasant we would rather be at

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the center uh we would rather be the

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only intelligent species that ever

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existed since the big bang but let's

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give up on that uh

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presumption let's say just look at

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the universe the way it is without

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makeup just using our telescopes that's

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the lesson we learned from galileo

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because sometimes you know the evidence

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is not flattering to us and we better

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know it so that we can accommodate

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uh to whatever the reality is and you

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know i love reality

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the way it is i don't need it to have

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makeup i don't need it to please my

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wishes i just want to see the way it is

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i'm in love with it the way it is and

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you know when you are in love with

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something or someone

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you want to learn everything about it

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you know so if there is a smarter kid on

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our blog

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so be it let's learn about him he or her

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or it

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yeah absolutely absolutely now um

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the early plans and the processes that

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you were going to implement were looking

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at objects out in sort of interstellar

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space and also things a lot closer to

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home

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and so so let's just talk about the

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things that are a bit further afield

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with the equipment that you plan on

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using to look out outwards is this new

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equipment that is being created

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specifically for the project

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yes

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so astronomers look at the sky all the

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time right but they're focusing on

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distant

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sources of light and if a bird flies

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above above the telescope they simply

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ignore it

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anything moving close to the telescope

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is being ignored also you know only

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recently over the past decade we built

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that a telescope that can survey the sky

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and detect an object the size

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the pan stars survey telescope and

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it indeed discovered an object the size

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of a football field that came from

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outside the solar system but that object

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didn't look like the typical rock that

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we see within the solar system it didn't

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look like a comet it did not evaporate

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did not produce a cometary tail and it

284
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:35,519
didn't look like a an asteroid in the

285
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:37,200
sense that it was pushed away from the

286
00:11:39,670 --> 00:11:38,480
sun without

287
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:39,680
any

288
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:42,480
rocket effect without evaporation so so

289
00:11:46,550 --> 00:11:45,600
it looked strange and by the way nasa

290
00:11:48,630 --> 00:11:46,560
never

291
00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:48,640
launched a football

292
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:50,800
a football field size

293
00:11:54,870 --> 00:11:52,320
spacecraft

294
00:11:57,190 --> 00:11:54,880
so there might be many more

295
00:12:00,310 --> 00:11:57,200
smaller objects that might some of which

296
00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:00,320
might be artificial may not be rocks and

297
00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:02,000
so the point is only over the past

298
00:12:05,750 --> 00:12:04,560
decade there was a survey telescope that

299
00:12:08,230 --> 00:12:05,760
could see

300
00:12:10,150 --> 00:12:08,240
based on the reflected sunlight objects

301
00:12:11,829 --> 00:12:10,160
of the size of a football field so we

302
00:12:14,069 --> 00:12:11,839
might be missing a lot of them and they

303
00:12:14,870 --> 00:12:14,079
might be passing fast so

304
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:14,880
um

305
00:12:23,030 --> 00:12:15,839
so

306
00:12:24,870 --> 00:12:23,040
unidentified objects

307
00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:24,880
and they were not really equipped with

308
00:12:28,949 --> 00:12:26,560
scientific instrumentation and

309
00:12:30,389 --> 00:12:28,959
astronomers were not looking close to us

310
00:12:32,310 --> 00:12:30,399
you know of course people were

311
00:12:34,069 --> 00:12:32,320
monitoring meteors these are rocks

312
00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:34,079
falling from the sky and burning up in

313
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:36,160
the atmosphere but they are extremely

314
00:12:40,629 --> 00:12:38,720
rare and much rarer than

315
00:12:42,389 --> 00:12:40,639
the frequency of those unidentified

316
00:12:43,430 --> 00:12:42,399
objects that the military was reporting

317
00:12:46,150 --> 00:12:43,440
about so

318
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:46,160
so there is a need to build uh new

319
00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:49,279
observing systems and what we are

320
00:12:55,269 --> 00:12:52,639
constructing is new in the sense that

321
00:12:57,910 --> 00:12:55,279
you know we we will have

322
00:12:59,670 --> 00:12:57,920
cameras that monitor the entire sky

323
00:13:01,590 --> 00:12:59,680
not just a small portion of the sky the

324
00:13:03,350 --> 00:13:01,600
way usually astronomy is done

325
00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:03,360
but the entire sky

326
00:13:06,629 --> 00:13:04,720
all the time

327
00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:06,639
in both infrared

328
00:13:10,069 --> 00:13:08,320
and visible light

329
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:10,079
the infrared is important because if you

330
00:13:14,310 --> 00:13:12,079
have a warm object at night you can

331
00:13:16,230 --> 00:13:14,320
still see it from the emission

332
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:16,240
but during day time you can see the

333
00:13:23,350 --> 00:13:19,360
reflection of sunlight from anything and

334
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:23,360
so we have both and also radio waves and

335
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:24,079
uh

336
00:13:28,629 --> 00:13:26,320
we also have we'll have a magnetometer

337
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:28,639
and the audio system

338
00:13:31,590 --> 00:13:29,680
and

339
00:13:33,269 --> 00:13:31,600
all together it's a new system even

340
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:33,279
though the components

341
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:35,279
can be bought off the shelf you know

342
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:37,440
it's just putting it together and also

343
00:13:41,030 --> 00:13:40,079
equipping it with the computing system

344
00:13:43,269 --> 00:13:41,040
that can

345
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:43,279
uh do the

346
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:45,279
identification of what we see in the sky

347
00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:47,120
in terms of you know is it an object

348
00:13:53,110 --> 00:13:50,639
that we recognize like a drone or a bird

349
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:53,120
in those cases even though it sounds you

350
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:54,800
know interesting to some people you know

351
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:57,120
zoologists are interested in birds

352
00:14:01,750 --> 00:13:58,959
i will be glad to transfer any

353
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:01,760
high-resolution image of a bird to

354
00:14:05,590 --> 00:14:04,000
zoologists you know for us it's not so

355
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:05,600
interesting just we just want to

356
00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:06,880
identify

357
00:14:10,870 --> 00:14:08,320
whether what we're seeing is is

358
00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:10,880
something known and if we see a drone

359
00:14:14,069 --> 00:14:11,920
that says

360
00:14:16,230 --> 00:14:14,079
made in china made in russia you know

361
00:14:18,069 --> 00:14:16,240
then of course there are people in

362
00:14:19,910 --> 00:14:18,079
washington dc that are very interesting

363
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:19,920
we'll be glad to transfer that data to

364
00:14:24,790 --> 00:14:23,199
them for us it's as boring i should say

365
00:14:25,750 --> 00:14:24,800
now it's possible that everything we

366
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:25,760
would see

367
00:14:31,509 --> 00:14:27,760
will end up in these categories are they

368
00:14:35,269 --> 00:14:31,519
either natural you know bird lightning

369
00:14:38,470 --> 00:14:35,279
meteor all kinds of natural phenomena or

370
00:14:39,590 --> 00:14:38,480
human-made objects including satellites

371
00:14:41,350 --> 00:14:39,600
including

372
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:41,360
you know

373
00:14:46,949 --> 00:14:44,399
airplanes drones anything that

374
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:46,959
or a balloon weather balloon or whatever

375
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:48,880
if it ends up being

376
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,399
just these two

377
00:14:55,269 --> 00:14:53,120
categories um you know so be it it's

378
00:14:56,310 --> 00:14:55,279
also an important service uh that the

379
00:14:57,590 --> 00:14:56,320
galileo

380
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:57,600
project

381
00:15:01,750 --> 00:14:59,440
is making because at least the

382
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:01,760
government is puzzled by some of the

383
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:04,160
things that the military personnel saw

384
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:06,320
and you know the government has i would

385
00:15:09,189 --> 00:15:07,680
assume

386
00:15:11,670 --> 00:15:09,199
excellent data

387
00:15:13,430 --> 00:15:11,680
because they have to monitor the sky so

388
00:15:15,910 --> 00:15:13,440
if the government is puzzled and we just

389
00:15:17,509 --> 00:15:15,920
explain it in terms of known things i

390
00:15:19,509 --> 00:15:17,519
think it's an important service that the

391
00:15:21,670 --> 00:15:19,519
scientific community

392
00:15:24,230 --> 00:15:21,680
needs to make rather than ridicule and

393
00:15:27,030 --> 00:15:24,240
say everything is natural and if there

394
00:15:29,590 --> 00:15:27,040
is something else that is not from this

395
00:15:31,350 --> 00:15:29,600
earth that is not a meteor not a rock

396
00:15:33,670 --> 00:15:31,360
not a natural thing

397
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:33,680
then let's see what it is i mean we

398
00:15:38,550 --> 00:15:36,480
shouldn't make any assumptions uh if it

399
00:15:40,870 --> 00:15:38,560
behaves in ways that

400
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,880
cannot be replicated by our technologies

401
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:42,800
if it looks very different

402
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:44,560
uh the natural objects because it has

403
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:46,639
screws and bolts on it and some buttons

404
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:48,720
that you can in principle press let's

405
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:50,240
figure out what it is you know i'm just

406
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:53,120
like at that point i would be like a kid

407
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:55,199
in a candy store

408
00:15:58,710 --> 00:15:56,880
i would like to press any button that

409
00:16:00,150 --> 00:15:58,720
they see

410
00:16:01,670 --> 00:16:00,160
that's great and would any of these

411
00:16:03,430 --> 00:16:01,680
objects that you mentioned if it did

412
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:03,440
come down to genuinely being something

413
00:16:06,550 --> 00:16:04,560
anomalous

414
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,560
has that been have you got systems in

415
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,560
place that are utilizing artificial

416
00:16:12,389 --> 00:16:10,800
intelligence to you know to brush away

417
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:12,399
all the all the things that we know and

418
00:16:17,350 --> 00:16:14,880
then what is the actual analysis process

419
00:16:19,110 --> 00:16:17,360
like before you can finally confirm that

420
00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:19,120
it's a genuine anomaly

421
00:16:22,550 --> 00:16:20,800
yes exactly that is

422
00:16:24,629 --> 00:16:22,560
our approach would be

423
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:24,639
the approaches sherlock holmes adapted

424
00:16:27,829 --> 00:16:25,600
you know

425
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:27,839
the fictional detective

426
00:16:30,150 --> 00:16:28,800
um

427
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:30,160
he basically

428
00:16:32,629 --> 00:16:30,959
said

429
00:16:33,670 --> 00:16:32,639
that you put all possibilities on the

430
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:33,680
table

431
00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:35,519
and then you rule them out by the

432
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:38,560
evidence okay and whatever remains

433
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:41,600
however improbable must be the truth

434
00:16:45,829 --> 00:16:43,360
now it's possible that

435
00:16:47,430 --> 00:16:45,839
what will remain would be something that

436
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:47,440
we are familiar with okay that's

437
00:16:51,509 --> 00:16:49,600
possible everything we look at will

438
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,519
appear to be either natural or

439
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:54,000
human-made it's a possibility

440
00:16:57,269 --> 00:16:55,759
but what i'm saying is at least the

441
00:16:59,350 --> 00:16:57,279
government

442
00:17:02,230 --> 00:16:59,360
currently is puzzled so we will help

443
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:02,240
them figure it out and the head of nasa

444
00:17:07,350 --> 00:17:05,600
bill nelson was saying back when the

445
00:17:09,990 --> 00:17:07,360
director of national intelligence avery

446
00:17:11,350 --> 00:17:10,000
haynes delivered the report to congress

447
00:17:14,789 --> 00:17:11,360
about

448
00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:14,799
seven eight months ago he was saying

449
00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:16,559
that scientists should engage and figure

450
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:19,120
out what these things are and that's

451
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:20,720
exactly what we are doing we are using

452
00:17:25,590 --> 00:17:22,559
the scientific method which was

453
00:17:26,710 --> 00:17:25,600
pioneered by galileo so if he were alive

454
00:17:28,950 --> 00:17:26,720
today

455
00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:28,960
i would have made him a honorary member

456
00:17:32,230 --> 00:17:30,799
of the galileo project

457
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:32,240
and are you having conversations with

458
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:34,240
people like bill nelson or other members

459
00:17:39,029 --> 00:17:36,480
of nasa you know are you engaging with

460
00:17:41,190 --> 00:17:39,039
them and liaising with them with regards

461
00:17:42,710 --> 00:17:41,200
to helping with the project at all

462
00:17:45,110 --> 00:17:42,720
well at the moment

463
00:17:46,789 --> 00:17:45,120
uh we are not engaged with any

464
00:17:48,470 --> 00:17:46,799
government

465
00:17:51,430 --> 00:17:48,480
organization

466
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:51,440
part of this is because we don't want to

467
00:17:55,190 --> 00:17:53,120
analyze

468
00:17:58,150 --> 00:17:55,200
classified data because that would limit

469
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:00,549
share freely what we know

470
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:02,799
uh with other scientists

471
00:18:05,669 --> 00:18:03,919
um

472
00:18:07,590 --> 00:18:05,679
so at the moment there are no

473
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:07,600
collaborations

474
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:10,160
but you know we shall see if anything

475
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:12,160
else comes along

476
00:18:15,750 --> 00:18:13,840
for example there would be this new

477
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:15,760
office in government

478
00:18:21,669 --> 00:18:19,200
that will start operations in june 2022

479
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:21,679
uh signed into law by president biden

480
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:22,880
and then

481
00:18:27,990 --> 00:18:25,200
it's possible they would declassify some

482
00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:28,000
data and we will be really interested in

483
00:18:32,310 --> 00:18:30,000
looking at that

484
00:18:34,310 --> 00:18:32,320
the other thing i should say is

485
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:34,320
i was told by

486
00:18:38,710 --> 00:18:36,320
a number of members of the galileo

487
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:38,720
project that they're really thrilled to

488
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:40,960
be engaged in collecting new data

489
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:43,039
because you know for many years they

490
00:18:47,590 --> 00:18:45,520
were interested in the subject

491
00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,600
but they didn't have

492
00:18:53,110 --> 00:18:49,840
this

493
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:53,120
community of people that are like-minded

494
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,640
and by

495
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:56,400
announcing the galileo project i

496
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:58,080
basically allowed

497
00:19:02,150 --> 00:19:00,960
this group of people to speak freely and

498
00:19:05,510 --> 00:19:02,160
if you think about it that's an

499
00:19:07,990 --> 00:19:05,520
elementary right an elementary

500
00:19:10,070 --> 00:19:08,000
ingredient of the scientific process

501
00:19:11,669 --> 00:19:10,080
so by ridiculing the subject and

502
00:19:14,310 --> 00:19:11,679
stigmatizing it

503
00:19:15,510 --> 00:19:14,320
you know uh the scientific unity is

504
00:19:18,789 --> 00:19:15,520
basically

505
00:19:21,510 --> 00:19:18,799
taking it out of the scientific process

506
00:19:22,789 --> 00:19:21,520
now think about the dark matter we don't

507
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:22,799
know what most of the matter in the

508
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:26,000
universe is and people suggested over

509
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:29,280
the past 40 50 years that maybe this

510
00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:31,200
type of particle maybe another type of

511
00:19:35,270 --> 00:19:33,280
particle is the dark matter we don't

512
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:35,280
know what it is and they were sort of

513
00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:37,360
suggesting various possibilities and i

514
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,960
came from that community you know i

515
00:19:44,150 --> 00:19:40,160
worked

516
00:19:47,029 --> 00:19:44,160
on cosmology throughout the first

517
00:19:49,350 --> 00:19:47,039
couple of a few decades of my career and

518
00:19:51,430 --> 00:19:49,360
that was pretty much the mentality you

519
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:51,440
it was completely legitimate to

520
00:19:55,669 --> 00:19:54,320
speculate or suggest the possibilities

521
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:55,679
for the dark matter since we don't know

522
00:19:59,750 --> 00:19:57,200
what it is and it can motivate

523
00:20:01,909 --> 00:19:59,760
experiments and over the past four years

524
00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:01,919
there were experiments funded

525
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:03,760
billions of dollars altogether the

526
00:20:09,029 --> 00:20:06,720
latest is the large hadron collider that

527
00:20:11,350 --> 00:20:09,039
cost 10 billion dollars and was looking

528
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:11,360
for super symmetric particles

529
00:20:15,190 --> 00:20:13,360
that could potentially make the dark the

530
00:20:17,430 --> 00:20:15,200
lightest among them could make the dark

531
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:17,440
matter we haven't found it

532
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:19,360
so think about

533
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:20,400
uh if

534
00:20:23,430 --> 00:20:21,919
some people within the scientific

535
00:20:26,390 --> 00:20:23,440
community would say

536
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:26,400
well supersymmetry was not found yet and

537
00:20:30,549 --> 00:20:29,039
therefore they would ridicule that idea

538
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,559
they would say

539
00:20:34,149 --> 00:20:32,640
not only that it doesn't make much sense

540
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:34,159
since we haven't seen any sign of

541
00:20:38,390 --> 00:20:37,039
supersymmetry but anyone that engages

542
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:38,400
with that

543
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:40,799
uh is a crackpot or should be

544
00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:42,559
stigmatized this should not be even

545
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:45,280
studied because we have no extraordinary

546
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,840
evidence for supersymmetry therefore

547
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:49,679
supersymmetric particles cannot make the

548
00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:51,200
dark matter therefore we should not

549
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:53,039
invest any funds in the search for

550
00:20:57,669 --> 00:20:54,960
supersymmetric particles

551
00:21:00,070 --> 00:20:57,679
what would we then do we would not build

552
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,080
the large hadron collider we would not

553
00:21:04,789 --> 00:21:02,559
search for the most popular super

554
00:21:06,710 --> 00:21:04,799
symmetric you know

555
00:21:07,830 --> 00:21:06,720
model for the dark matter

556
00:21:11,029 --> 00:21:07,840
and

557
00:21:13,270 --> 00:21:11,039
as a result we would not know if it is

558
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:13,280
that particle or maybe something else

559
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,000
but instead we engaged in the search we

560
00:21:21,110 --> 00:21:18,799
didn't find it so we learned something

561
00:21:22,950 --> 00:21:21,120
now in retrospect was it a waste of

562
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:22,960
money should they

563
00:21:26,149 --> 00:21:24,240
you know should we

564
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:26,159
have avoided it because there was no

565
00:21:29,909 --> 00:21:28,080
extraordinary evidence for super saiyan

566
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,919
the answer is no that's the scientific

567
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:31,440
process that's the way things should be

568
00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:32,960
done so

569
00:21:37,270 --> 00:21:35,120
you know in the case of unidentified

570
00:21:39,590 --> 00:21:37,280
objects or objects like

571
00:21:41,909 --> 00:21:39,600
that did not look like the rocks we are

572
00:21:44,470 --> 00:21:41,919
used to what's the problem in allowing

573
00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:44,480
for the possibility that we might find a

574
00:21:48,630 --> 00:21:46,320
plastic bottle one day from another

575
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:48,640
civilization i mean after all we sent

576
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,440
spacecraft to space and it's not such a

577
00:21:55,430 --> 00:21:53,280
speculation to imagine someone else

578
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:55,440
doing it a billion years ago because a

579
00:21:58,950 --> 00:21:57,360
lot of stars formed billions of years

580
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:58,960
before the sun and they have planets

581
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:01,360
like the earth around them so

582
00:22:06,470 --> 00:22:04,320
just imagine us elsewhere a billion

583
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:06,480
years ago that's all and sending

584
00:22:10,789 --> 00:22:08,799
spacecraft and so that's not a great

585
00:22:13,270 --> 00:22:10,799
speculation i i would argue that it's

586
00:22:13,990 --> 00:22:13,280
more down to earth so to speak compared

587
00:22:14,950 --> 00:22:14,000
to

588
00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:14,960
the the

589
00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:17,200
suggestion that dark matter is super a

590
00:22:22,470 --> 00:22:19,840
super symmetric particle nevertheless

591
00:22:24,950 --> 00:22:22,480
it's stigmatized ridiculed and people

592
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,960
claim it's extraordinary of us to even

593
00:22:28,110 --> 00:22:26,400
consider that

594
00:22:30,549 --> 00:22:28,120
and i say

595
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:30,559
extraordinary evidence requires

596
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:34,000
extraordinary funding if we had billions

597
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:35,200
of dollars

598
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:37,200
dedicated to the search for equipment

599
00:22:43,270 --> 00:22:39,919
from other civilizations in space over

600
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:43,280
40 years and we would not find anything

601
00:22:47,909 --> 00:22:45,120
then we would be exactly at the same

602
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:47,919
point as the search for

603
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:50,640
supersymmetric particles the dark matter

604
00:22:54,710 --> 00:22:52,480
okay we would be at the same point where

605
00:22:57,190 --> 00:22:54,720
we are now in the context of the dark

606
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:57,200
matter search so why should

607
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:58,799
the search for equipment from other

608
00:23:04,549 --> 00:23:01,919
civilizations be ridiculed in advance

609
00:23:06,070 --> 00:23:04,559
this is not the scientific method

610
00:23:08,070 --> 00:23:06,080
no not at all

611
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:08,080
and now you're mentioning that muammar

612
00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:09,840
um one thing that i was really wanting

613
00:23:14,630 --> 00:23:12,880
to ask was in the time that um was

614
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:14,640
visible through the telescopes did you

615
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:15,679
do

616
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:19,840
in the time it was there or did it

617
00:23:24,149 --> 00:23:21,840
disappear before you know you had the

618
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:24,159
chance to do all the studies

619
00:23:27,830 --> 00:23:26,000
definitely disappeared before we had the

620
00:23:30,230 --> 00:23:27,840
chance because right

621
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:30,240
you know there were unusual

622
00:23:35,110 --> 00:23:33,039
anomalies about the omo things that did

623
00:23:38,549 --> 00:23:35,120
not conform with objects we've seen

624
00:23:41,830 --> 00:23:38,559
before i mean the first was that it

625
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:41,840
changed its brightness by a factor of 10

626
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:43,520
as it was tumbling

627
00:23:47,830 --> 00:23:45,760
and then that's unusual it meant that it

628
00:23:50,070 --> 00:23:47,840
has an extreme shape usually we see

629
00:23:50,950 --> 00:23:50,080
variations but up to a factor of three

630
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,960
from

631
00:23:54,870 --> 00:23:52,559
asteroids

632
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:54,880
and also that it was pushed away from

633
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:56,480
the sun

634
00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:58,559
by some mysterious force even though it

635
00:24:03,510 --> 00:24:00,880
didn't have a cometary tail

636
00:24:04,870 --> 00:24:03,520
now this last bit of

637
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:04,880
anomaly

638
00:24:08,789 --> 00:24:07,679
was reported about eight months after

639
00:24:11,830 --> 00:24:08,799
the

640
00:24:15,029 --> 00:24:11,840
object was discovered and

641
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:15,039
so it was reported in june 2018

642
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:18,720
and by january 2018 about five months

643
00:24:22,549 --> 00:24:19,760
earlier

644
00:24:25,110 --> 00:24:22,559
the object was already too faint for us

645
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:25,120
to see with our telescopes so by the

646
00:24:29,830 --> 00:24:27,919
time we realized that it's so unusual it

647
00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:29,840
was too late it's sort of like going on

648
00:24:32,789 --> 00:24:30,880
a date

649
00:24:33,909 --> 00:24:32,799
and realizing the person you went out

650
00:24:35,990 --> 00:24:33,919
with

651
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,000
is really remarkable and interesting

652
00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:38,240
only after that person left

653
00:24:43,350 --> 00:24:40,080
and then you have to

654
00:24:45,350 --> 00:24:43,360
find another person like that one uh and

655
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:45,360
so you know the problem with

656
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:48,240
by now it's millions of times fainter

657
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:50,559
than it was close to us and it's simply

658
00:24:54,549 --> 00:24:51,520
because

659
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:54,559
an object gates gets a fainter inversely

660
00:25:03,750 --> 00:25:00,789
relative to the sun and

661
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:03,760
so it get these objects get really faint

662
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:06,400
quickly as they move away and then we

663
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:08,000
need to catch them when they are passing

664
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:09,039
near us

665
00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:10,960
and in fact we want to rendezvous with

666
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:12,880
the next tomorrow it's sort of like

667
00:25:20,070 --> 00:25:16,880
planning on it dating the next

668
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:20,080
and it's a very expensive date i i i

669
00:25:24,950 --> 00:25:23,120
should tell you because if we we i mean

670
00:25:27,029 --> 00:25:24,960
the best way to figure out its nature

671
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:27,039
would be to send a camera very close to

672
00:25:31,190 --> 00:25:28,720
it so we can get

673
00:25:33,029 --> 00:25:31,200
a high resolution image of it i mean we

674
00:25:34,870 --> 00:25:33,039
could also learn more about it with the

675
00:25:35,990 --> 00:25:34,880
james webb space telescope from a

676
00:25:36,950 --> 00:25:36,000
distance

677
00:25:38,789 --> 00:25:36,960
yeah

678
00:25:40,630 --> 00:25:38,799
and and by the way the james webb space

679
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:40,640
telescope is much better than the hubble

680
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:42,400
space telescope that we had when we

681
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:43,760
looked at um

682
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:45,279
because

683
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:49,600
the jwst is at the lagrange point to you

684
00:25:56,789 --> 00:25:53,039
know l2 which is quite far from earth

685
00:25:59,590 --> 00:25:56,799
okay and if we look at the next one

686
00:26:01,750 --> 00:25:59,600
from earth and from jwst we are looking

687
00:26:03,669 --> 00:26:01,760
at it from two different directions

688
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:03,679
significantly different directions

689
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:05,279
the hubble space telescope was very

690
00:26:09,510 --> 00:26:07,520
close to earth so it was almost the same

691
00:26:11,190 --> 00:26:09,520
viewing angle but if you look at an

692
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:11,200
object from different directions you can

693
00:26:14,630 --> 00:26:12,080
track

694
00:26:17,029 --> 00:26:14,640
its motion in three dimensions extremely

695
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:17,039
well because you are seeing it from two

696
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,200
directions so you can cross the

697
00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:21,360
cross reference the observations and

698
00:26:25,590 --> 00:26:23,279
figure out the trajectory in three

699
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:25,600
dimensions to a high precision that

700
00:26:28,710 --> 00:26:26,799
would give us

701
00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:28,720
a very good sense about whether it's

702
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:30,080
being pushed

703
00:26:35,510 --> 00:26:32,559
by something other than evaporation okay

704
00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:35,520
and moreover you can observe it with a

705
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:38,400
much bigger telescope because the jwst

706
00:26:42,230 --> 00:26:40,240
is three times bigger than

707
00:26:44,070 --> 00:26:42,240
the hubble space telescope so

708
00:26:46,070 --> 00:26:44,080
10 times the collecting area also

709
00:26:47,750 --> 00:26:46,080
looking at the infrared so it can

710
00:26:50,870 --> 00:26:47,760
potentially see the emission from the

711
00:26:53,110 --> 00:26:50,880
object can figure out its temperature

712
00:26:54,870 --> 00:26:53,120
and then maybe the reflectance take a

713
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:54,880
spectrum of it so figure out the

714
00:26:59,430 --> 00:26:57,200
composition of the surface a lot of

715
00:27:01,750 --> 00:26:59,440
things that even without coming close to

716
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:01,760
the object you can figure out so that's

717
00:27:06,789 --> 00:27:04,480
the advantage of having jwst

718
00:27:07,830 --> 00:27:06,799
and the other advantage we have is that

719
00:27:11,110 --> 00:27:07,840
instead of

720
00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:11,120
pan stars the telescope that discovered

721
00:27:15,110 --> 00:27:13,360
there will be another um survey

722
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:15,120
telescope called the vera rubin

723
00:27:18,789 --> 00:27:17,200
observatory that

724
00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:18,799
will be much more sensitive bigger

725
00:27:22,870 --> 00:27:21,039
telescope and therefore much more

726
00:27:24,389 --> 00:27:22,880
sensitive that will start operations in

727
00:27:25,269 --> 00:27:24,399
about a year and a half

728
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:25,279
and

729
00:27:30,149 --> 00:27:27,600
we'll be able to find many more objects

730
00:27:31,990 --> 00:27:30,159
like more at larger distances so if we

731
00:27:35,029 --> 00:27:32,000
see them an object like that coming

732
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:35,039
towards us we can send a spacecraft

733
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:37,520
equipped with a camera that will run the

734
00:27:42,310 --> 00:27:39,760
void along its path

735
00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:42,320
and you need to come as close as a

736
00:27:46,870 --> 00:27:44,559
thousand kilometers to such an object in

737
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:46,880
order to get a high resolution image

738
00:27:51,909 --> 00:27:50,159
and that's possible now that is part of

739
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:51,919
the galileo project so aside from

740
00:27:55,269 --> 00:27:54,240
looking at unidentified objects close to

741
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:55,279
earth

742
00:27:59,430 --> 00:27:57,360
we are also engaged in designing a

743
00:28:02,149 --> 00:27:59,440
mission that will

744
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:02,159
rendezvous with the next one and such a

745
00:28:05,510 --> 00:28:04,720
mission is quite expensive you know it's

746
00:28:07,669 --> 00:28:05,520
half

747
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:07,679
a billion dollars at least

748
00:28:12,230 --> 00:28:10,559
and so it's a very expensive date

749
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:12,240
just think about it

750
00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:14,240
going on a date this is an expensive

751
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:17,200
date so you have to make sure

752
00:28:21,510 --> 00:28:19,120
that the object you are run the viewing

753
00:28:23,110 --> 00:28:21,520
with is worth the money

754
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:23,120
because you don't want to

755
00:28:26,230 --> 00:28:24,720
go there and see

756
00:28:28,149 --> 00:28:26,240
you know a rock

757
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:28,159
that would be disappoint i mean

758
00:28:32,149 --> 00:28:30,320
it would be interesting to examine the

759
00:28:33,669 --> 00:28:32,159
rock but we've seen a lot of rocks

760
00:28:36,870 --> 00:28:33,679
before so

761
00:28:38,149 --> 00:28:36,880
um you know for example osiris-rex this

762
00:28:39,350 --> 00:28:38,159
mission from

763
00:28:41,990 --> 00:28:39,360
um

764
00:28:43,990 --> 00:28:42,000
that landed on on the asteroid bennu

765
00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:44,000
took a high resolution image off the

766
00:28:48,630 --> 00:28:46,480
surface it looked like a rock with you

767
00:28:50,310 --> 00:28:48,640
know pebbles and stuff on it

768
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:50,320
it's sort of like dirt you know and it

769
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:52,000
collected some of this dirt it will

770
00:28:56,549 --> 00:28:54,240
bring it back to earth within a year

771
00:28:58,870 --> 00:28:56,559
but that's not as thrilling as landing

772
00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:58,880
on a spacecraft you know like figuring

773
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:00,559
out this spacecraft

774
00:29:06,310 --> 00:29:03,039
has a label the label says made on

775
00:29:08,710 --> 00:29:06,320
exoplanet y and there are some buttons

776
00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:08,720
on it maybe we can navigate it

777
00:29:13,029 --> 00:29:10,480
so anyway um

778
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:13,039
so we want to meet to be sure that the

779
00:29:16,460 --> 00:29:14,799
object we are rendezvouing with is

780
00:29:17,750 --> 00:29:16,470
unusual at least looking like

781
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:17,760
[Music]

782
00:29:21,590 --> 00:29:19,760
and then send that mission and

783
00:29:23,750 --> 00:29:21,600
so we are planning that mission but also

784
00:29:26,549 --> 00:29:23,760
we have to prepare for finding such

785
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:26,559
objects so designing the software that

786
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:30,320
will identify or more more like objects

787
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,320
from the pipeline of data that comes

788
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,159
from

789
00:29:38,549 --> 00:29:36,559
the vera rubin observatory yeah well

790
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:38,559
hypothetically speaking if

791
00:29:42,630 --> 00:29:40,559
tomorrow maybe one of the telescopes in

792
00:29:43,830 --> 00:29:42,640
chile or hawaii

793
00:29:45,350 --> 00:29:43,840
suddenly alerted you that they've

794
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:45,360
spotted an object that's coming in

795
00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:47,360
that's similar and you're not ready or

796
00:29:51,750 --> 00:29:49,360
prepared to you know roll out all the

797
00:29:54,549 --> 00:29:51,760
equipment yet do you have like um things

798
00:29:56,389 --> 00:29:54,559
in place to to to get there would do you

799
00:29:59,190 --> 00:29:56,399
have connections with nasa where you can

800
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:59,200
say can we utilize the james webb and

801
00:30:03,669 --> 00:30:00,960
turn it and look for this thing like

802
00:30:05,990 --> 00:30:03,679
what would you do if it happens tomorrow

803
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,000
oh definitely use all the telescopes

804
00:30:12,549 --> 00:30:08,399
available and you know given that my

805
00:30:15,029 --> 00:30:12,559
book was published a year ago and um

806
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:15,039
there was a huge amount of interest and

807
00:30:18,549 --> 00:30:16,480
both in the public but also in the

808
00:30:19,990 --> 00:30:18,559
scientific community a lot of people

809
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:20,000
trying to push back

810
00:30:25,190 --> 00:30:22,960
i you know i would imagine that every

811
00:30:26,149 --> 00:30:25,200
telescope would look at this object okay

812
00:30:27,990 --> 00:30:26,159
just

813
00:30:29,909 --> 00:30:28,000
because the scientists would like to

814
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:29,919
prove that it's a hydrogen iceberg or a

815
00:30:33,669 --> 00:30:31,840
nitrogen iceberg or a cloud of dust

816
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:33,679
particles if it's not

817
00:30:38,549 --> 00:30:36,240
artificial and that's perfectly fine i'm

818
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:38,559
all for it if we discover that this

819
00:30:42,789 --> 00:30:40,399
object is a rock of a type that we've

820
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:42,799
never seen before like was suggested

821
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:45,039
by the mainstream

822
00:30:48,230 --> 00:30:46,720
then we learned something new we learned

823
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:48,240
that there are nurseries that make

824
00:30:52,389 --> 00:30:50,960
objects that the solar system doesn't or

825
00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:52,399
at least we didn't see in the solar

826
00:30:56,950 --> 00:30:54,960
system okay and so we will learn

827
00:30:58,310 --> 00:30:56,960
something new no matter what and

828
00:31:00,070 --> 00:30:58,320
i hope that

829
00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:00,080
in trying to just prove that it's

830
00:31:02,950 --> 00:31:01,840
natural but of a type that we've never

831
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:02,960
seen before

832
00:31:07,750 --> 00:31:05,440
the scientists will collect so much data

833
00:31:10,389 --> 00:31:07,760
that we will definitely have a better

834
00:31:12,310 --> 00:31:10,399
clue about the nature of that object as

835
00:31:14,389 --> 00:31:12,320
long as it doesn't look like a comet a

836
00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,399
regular comet you know because the

837
00:31:20,549 --> 00:31:16,480
second the interstellar object that was

838
00:31:22,710 --> 00:31:20,559
discovered was borisov and that was

839
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:22,720
that looked like a comet so scientists

840
00:31:25,909 --> 00:31:24,240
came to me and said

841
00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:25,919
well this second one looks like a

842
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:28,000
regular comet so doesn't it convince you

843
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:29,600
that umuamua

844
00:31:33,029 --> 00:31:30,880
was natural

845
00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:33,039
and i said well if you go

846
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:34,720
on the beach and if you see a plastic

847
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:36,799
bottle and then you see a rock

848
00:31:40,149 --> 00:31:38,240
you know it doesn't make the plastic

849
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:40,159
bottle a rock

850
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:41,440
and

851
00:31:45,990 --> 00:31:43,279
on the contrary the fact that the

852
00:31:47,269 --> 00:31:46,000
borisov looked so close to a regular

853
00:31:49,750 --> 00:31:47,279
comet makes

854
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:49,760
unusual i should say

855
00:31:59,830 --> 00:31:57,190
about

856
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:59,840
three years ago

857
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:01,919
i was interviewed about

858
00:32:08,230 --> 00:32:04,240
a meteor that was found

859
00:32:10,149 --> 00:32:08,240
close to um kamchatka

860
00:32:13,909 --> 00:32:10,159
and

861
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:13,919
in in trying to learn uh about more more

862
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:17,760
information about this meteor um i um

863
00:32:21,190 --> 00:32:19,200
opened up you know on the internet

864
00:32:24,070 --> 00:32:21,200
various websites related to meteors and

865
00:32:26,549 --> 00:32:24,080
i realized that there is

866
00:32:28,789 --> 00:32:26,559
there is a catalog of meteors and

867
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:28,799
uh that has data about the speed by

868
00:32:32,310 --> 00:32:30,720
which they entered the atmosphere okay

869
00:32:34,789 --> 00:32:32,320
so meteors are just

870
00:32:35,590 --> 00:32:34,799
usually the there are a rock you know

871
00:32:38,389 --> 00:32:35,600
that

872
00:32:39,909 --> 00:32:38,399
enters the atmospheres and burns up

873
00:32:41,669 --> 00:32:39,919
and you see the light

874
00:32:43,990 --> 00:32:41,679
so you basically you you're using the

875
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:44,000
atmosphere as the detector of an object

876
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:47,039
it's very different from looking

877
00:32:51,990 --> 00:32:49,840
uh at the reflected sunlight so for the

878
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:52,000
reflected sunlight as i said you can

879
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:53,679
only see

880
00:32:57,029 --> 00:32:55,679
right now objects as big as a football

881
00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:57,039
field within the orbit of the earth

882
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:58,240
around the sun unless they come

883
00:33:01,990 --> 00:33:00,159
extremely close but

884
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,000
with an object that burns in the

885
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:04,000
atmosphere it creates its own light

886
00:33:09,110 --> 00:33:06,399
there is a fireball so you can see

887
00:33:11,830 --> 00:33:09,120
objects the size of a person no problem

888
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:11,840
okay and that was this um

889
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:14,320
this meteor and but then there is a

890
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:16,960
catalog and so i approached as soon as

891
00:33:21,590 --> 00:33:18,799
after the interview was over it was a

892
00:33:24,389 --> 00:33:21,600
radio interview i approached my

893
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,399
student undergraduate student and i said

894
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:26,880
why don't you check this catalog

895
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:27,760
and

896
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:28,559
you know

897
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:29,840
and figure out

898
00:33:33,909 --> 00:33:32,640
whether the fastest meteors that were

899
00:33:37,509 --> 00:33:33,919
identified

900
00:33:39,509 --> 00:33:37,519
any of them if you go back in time

901
00:33:41,590 --> 00:33:39,519
you can figure out whether they

902
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:41,600
came from outside the solar system if

903
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:43,760
they moved fast enough they cannot be

904
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,919
bound to the sun okay

905
00:33:50,630 --> 00:33:47,760
so he went to the first object that was

906
00:33:53,430 --> 00:33:50,640
the fastest turned out that this one

907
00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:53,440
was just a head-on collision with earth

908
00:33:58,710 --> 00:33:55,919
so it wasn't moving really

909
00:34:00,470 --> 00:33:58,720
uh fast relative to the sun it was just

910
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,480
moving opposite to the earth so the

911
00:34:04,149 --> 00:34:02,640
earth collided with it at the high speed

912
00:34:08,629 --> 00:34:04,159
relative speed

913
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:08,639
he was then he went to the second object

914
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:10,079
and

915
00:34:14,310 --> 00:34:12,720
for that he found definitely you know it

916
00:34:17,510 --> 00:34:14,320
came from outside the solar system it

917
00:34:20,950 --> 00:34:17,520
was moving at 40 kilometers per second

918
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:20,960
far away from the sun and

919
00:34:25,190 --> 00:34:23,679
my student amir siraj and myself we

920
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:25,200
wrote immediately a paper that we

921
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:26,879
submitted for publication within a few

922
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:29,520
days saying actually this is a meteor

923
00:34:36,550 --> 00:34:32,879
from 2014 this second on the list from

924
00:34:39,669 --> 00:34:36,560
2014 january 2014 so it's almost four

925
00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:39,679
years before omo was discovered and it

926
00:34:45,030 --> 00:34:42,720
is it seems to be of interstellar origin

927
00:34:47,270 --> 00:34:45,040
so we said here is an object the first

928
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:47,280
interstellar meteor

929
00:34:52,069 --> 00:34:50,000
and by the way interstellar dust was

930
00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:52,079
detected on earth before i mean tiny

931
00:34:56,230 --> 00:34:54,320
particles this is just a human size

932
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:56,240
object so it's been

933
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:57,920
and then you know if you think about

934
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,640
cubesats or there are many more cubesats

935
00:35:04,550 --> 00:35:02,480
that nasa

936
00:35:06,550 --> 00:35:04,560
or or objects the size of a person that

937
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:06,560
nasa launched to space

938
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:07,520
than

939
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:10,640
the big spacecraft right so you expect

940
00:35:14,870 --> 00:35:12,560
objects like that to be much more common

941
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:14,880
than more more like objects even if they

942
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:17,119
are artificial you know you expect so at

943
00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:18,320
any event

944
00:35:23,349 --> 00:35:20,800
we don't know the nature of this meteor

945
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:23,359
so we submitted the paper just saying

946
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:25,520
the first interstellar meteor

947
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:28,160
and the referees the reviewers of the

948
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:30,000
paper said no this paper should be

949
00:35:35,430 --> 00:35:33,280
rejected not published because

950
00:35:36,470 --> 00:35:35,440
the data in that catalog was government

951
00:35:38,150 --> 00:35:36,480
owned

952
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,160
you know it got the it was government

953
00:35:42,630 --> 00:35:40,880
data and the error bars were not

954
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:42,640
reported because the government doesn't

955
00:35:47,670 --> 00:35:45,440
want to provide information about how

956
00:35:49,109 --> 00:35:47,680
good the sensors that the government is

957
00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:49,119
using are

958
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:51,680
so we said look you know you don't trust

959
00:35:55,349 --> 00:35:53,040
the government but the government needs

960
00:35:57,589 --> 00:35:55,359
to know whether a ballistic missile gets

961
00:35:59,349 --> 00:35:57,599
to boston or new york city so they

962
00:36:00,790 --> 00:35:59,359
really have very good instrumentation

963
00:36:02,550 --> 00:36:00,800
they won't you know

964
00:36:04,069 --> 00:36:02,560
but the referee said no way i don't

965
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:04,079
believe the government the government

966
00:36:07,750 --> 00:36:06,160
could be wrong and therefore the paper

967
00:36:10,390 --> 00:36:07,760
should not be published

968
00:36:12,390 --> 00:36:10,400
so then i approached some people that

969
00:36:14,710 --> 00:36:12,400
tried to help us um

970
00:36:16,630 --> 00:36:14,720
uh from behind the f the

971
00:36:20,230 --> 00:36:16,640
defense so to speak

972
00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:20,240
uh and then you know it took many years

973
00:36:25,190 --> 00:36:21,119
uh

974
00:36:26,870 --> 00:36:25,200
but um i just heard recently that um

975
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:26,880
indeed the

976
00:36:31,270 --> 00:36:28,640
there is um

977
00:36:34,310 --> 00:36:31,280
hopefully a document about to be sent to

978
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:34,320
us that will and definitely state that

979
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:35,920
this object

980
00:36:41,190 --> 00:36:38,640
uh was interstellar so

981
00:36:43,349 --> 00:36:41,200
it well there are two things to take

982
00:36:45,109 --> 00:36:43,359
from this story first of all momo is not

983
00:36:47,750 --> 00:36:45,119
the first okay we have interstellar

984
00:36:50,069 --> 00:36:47,760
meteors that we can look for and the

985
00:36:52,230 --> 00:36:50,079
advantage of that is if anything remains

986
00:36:54,150 --> 00:36:52,240
from the meteor that lands on the ground

987
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:54,160
you know we can put our hands on it so

988
00:36:58,390 --> 00:36:56,000
it's possible most of the interstellar

989
00:37:00,230 --> 00:36:58,400
objects would be rocks

990
00:37:01,109 --> 00:37:00,240
but it's also possible that one every

991
00:37:02,390 --> 00:37:01,119
now and

992
00:37:04,630 --> 00:37:02,400
every once in a while one of the

993
00:37:06,310 --> 00:37:04,640
interstellar objects will not be a rock

994
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:06,320
and that's great because we don't need

995
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:08,800
to send anything to space space sends

996
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:10,720
things to us

997
00:37:14,230 --> 00:37:12,000
okay

998
00:37:17,430 --> 00:37:14,240
and it could be even possible to search

999
00:37:18,470 --> 00:37:17,440
for the whatever debris was left over of

1000
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:18,480
that

1001
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:21,760
meteor from 2014 in near papua new

1002
00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:24,960
guinea that's where it entered the ocean

1003
00:37:28,390 --> 00:37:26,560
at any event

1004
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:28,400
the second lesson to learn is how

1005
00:37:32,230 --> 00:37:29,839
conservative

1006
00:37:33,829 --> 00:37:32,240
the scientific community is because

1007
00:37:35,910 --> 00:37:33,839
the referees

1008
00:37:38,470 --> 00:37:35,920
were not willing to consider this paper

1009
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:38,480
for publication and you know what would

1010
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:39,839
be the harm

1011
00:37:44,069 --> 00:37:41,520
from such a

1012
00:37:45,750 --> 00:37:44,079
paper being published like why would

1013
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:45,760
that be

1014
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:47,599
so so um

1015
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:50,800
so much pushed against and uh the only

1016
00:37:55,270 --> 00:37:52,560
way i can think of it you know they're

1017
00:37:56,550 --> 00:37:55,280
for the reviewers were experts in this

1018
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:56,560
field

1019
00:38:02,550 --> 00:37:59,040
and they were not part of

1020
00:38:04,630 --> 00:38:02,560
the discovery of this of this meteor

1021
00:38:06,710 --> 00:38:04,640
and they would try to block it as much

1022
00:38:08,790 --> 00:38:06,720
as possible because

1023
00:38:10,310 --> 00:38:08,800
you know why would someone else get

1024
00:38:13,109 --> 00:38:10,320
credit

1025
00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:13,119
for that discovery now

1026
00:38:17,589 --> 00:38:15,760
by claiming the government is does not

1027
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:17,599
know what they're doing you know that

1028
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:20,160
that's an easy claim to make because

1029
00:38:23,829 --> 00:38:21,839
unfortunately a lot of the information

1030
00:38:24,870 --> 00:38:23,839
is hidden

1031
00:38:27,589 --> 00:38:24,880
but

1032
00:38:30,870 --> 00:38:27,599
in this case i hope that very soon we'll

1033
00:38:33,910 --> 00:38:30,880
be able to show publicly that indeed

1034
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:33,920
this data was good enough for us to

1035
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:35,520
claim that this is an interstellar

1036
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:38,240
meteor so it took a few years in the

1037
00:38:42,550 --> 00:38:40,560
making to get the government out that's

1038
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,560
why i'm not seeking classified data you

1039
00:38:46,310 --> 00:38:44,400
know if the government will release or

1040
00:38:49,109 --> 00:38:46,320
declassify existing data that would be

1041
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:49,119
fantastic but otherwise the process of

1042
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,720
this classification is so tedious

1043
00:38:56,870 --> 00:38:54,240
it's better to get our

1044
00:38:58,390 --> 00:38:56,880
you know new data from our new telescope

1045
00:39:00,390 --> 00:38:58,400
systems because the sky is not

1046
00:39:02,150 --> 00:39:00,400
classified no absolutely and then you

1047
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:02,160
don't have anybody else to answer to

1048
00:39:06,150 --> 00:39:05,359
either which which would be be great i

1049
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,160
mean

1050
00:39:10,470 --> 00:39:08,560
this is one aspect of it but another is

1051
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:10,480
suppose you know something that is

1052
00:39:13,270 --> 00:39:12,240
classified and and you're not speaking

1053
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:13,280
about it

1054
00:39:19,109 --> 00:39:16,800
but then you discover something similar

1055
00:39:21,109 --> 00:39:19,119
using the telescope systems

1056
00:39:22,150 --> 00:39:21,119
then you have a conflict

1057
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,160
because

1058
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:24,720
you know someone could argue that the

1059
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:28,240
reason you interpreted that new thing

1060
00:39:32,470 --> 00:39:30,720
as this or that is based on what you

1061
00:39:35,349 --> 00:39:32,480
already knew

1062
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:35,359
that looked similar to this and or that

1063
00:39:38,550 --> 00:39:37,440
so there is also that part that you are

1064
00:39:40,390 --> 00:39:38,560
not them

1065
00:39:43,109 --> 00:39:40,400
you know that it's complicated because

1066
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:43,119
you're you're not entangled in some

1067
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:44,960
prior knowledge that you're not supposed

1068
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:45,680
to

1069
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,400
talk about so it's much simpler if you

1070
00:39:53,109 --> 00:39:50,800
act like a kid you know a kid doesn't

1071
00:39:54,950 --> 00:39:53,119
the kid doesn't care you know adults

1072
00:39:57,750 --> 00:39:54,960
always have a baggage

1073
00:39:59,190 --> 00:39:57,760
yeah um i'm trying to keep maintain my

1074
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:59,200
childhood the

1075
00:40:02,550 --> 00:40:01,200
approach as much as possible not have a

1076
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:02,560
baggage

1077
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:04,319
i think a lot of people should should

1078
00:40:09,750 --> 00:40:06,400
follow suit and try to try that out

1079
00:40:11,510 --> 00:40:09,760
themselves me included and now in that

1080
00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,520
conversation part there you mentioned

1081
00:40:14,069 --> 00:40:13,280
sensor systems and the government and

1082
00:40:15,270 --> 00:40:14,079
that

1083
00:40:21,910 --> 00:40:15,280
now

1084
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:21,920
it comes to uap is that they can

1085
00:40:25,030 --> 00:40:23,680
manipulate gravity

1086
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:25,040
now

1087
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:26,079
is there any way that you will be

1088
00:40:29,349 --> 00:40:27,680
implementing any systems that will

1089
00:40:31,270 --> 00:40:29,359
monitor sort of gravity waves or

1090
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:31,280
anything like that to see if there are

1091
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:33,760
any objects you know

1092
00:40:38,150 --> 00:40:36,079
visible in that respect

1093
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:38,160
yeah so first i should explain the

1094
00:40:42,390 --> 00:40:39,839
perspective i'm coming from i'm a

1095
00:40:44,790 --> 00:40:42,400
physicist you know and the laws of

1096
00:40:46,950 --> 00:40:44,800
physics that we use um

1097
00:40:49,109 --> 00:40:46,960
routinely in physics

1098
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:49,119
work exceptionally well okay in the

1099
00:40:54,550 --> 00:40:50,800
sense that

1100
00:40:57,349 --> 00:40:54,560
you know um to find deviations from the

1101
00:40:59,829 --> 00:40:57,359
laws of physics that we routinely use

1102
00:41:02,150 --> 00:40:59,839
you know wins you a nobel prize even if

1103
00:41:04,309 --> 00:41:02,160
the deviation is tiny and a lot of

1104
00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:04,319
people are working really hard to see

1105
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:06,960
any slight hint of a deviation it's

1106
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:09,200
called an anomaly relative to the

1107
00:41:14,390 --> 00:41:11,760
established laws of quantum mechanics

1108
00:41:15,750 --> 00:41:14,400
and gravity that we we all know

1109
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:15,760
so

1110
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:19,440
if we find any evidence for a deviation

1111
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:21,440
from the known laws of physics that

1112
00:41:24,470 --> 00:41:23,280
would be of much

1113
00:41:26,150 --> 00:41:24,480
bigger

1114
00:41:28,230 --> 00:41:26,160
impact because it would affect the

1115
00:41:30,150 --> 00:41:28,240
universe at large you know because the

1116
00:41:33,510 --> 00:41:30,160
laws of physics apply everywhere they

1117
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:33,520
don't just apply to uap so if a uap

1118
00:41:37,190 --> 00:41:35,760
shows a deviation from the laws of

1119
00:41:38,150 --> 00:41:37,200
physics

1120
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:38,160
it's

1121
00:41:42,390 --> 00:41:40,560
dramatic because it means that anywhere

1122
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:42,400
in the universe you can deviate in the

1123
00:41:46,790 --> 00:41:44,079
same way okay

1124
00:41:48,710 --> 00:41:46,800
so that i would argue

1125
00:41:50,550 --> 00:41:48,720
is only

1126
00:41:51,510 --> 00:41:50,560
you know if we cannot explain what we

1127
00:41:53,349 --> 00:41:51,520
see

1128
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:53,359
in terms of the known laws of physics

1129
00:41:57,349 --> 00:41:55,040
and that should be left

1130
00:41:59,829 --> 00:41:57,359
out of the first approach to any

1131
00:42:01,990 --> 00:41:59,839
phenomena we see so if you see something

1132
00:42:04,550 --> 00:42:02,000
really weird you need to understand is

1133
00:42:06,950 --> 00:42:04,560
it malfunction of the instruments okay

1134
00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:06,960
is it an optical illusion

1135
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:08,240
there there could be lots of

1136
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:10,720
possibilities uh and only once you rule

1137
00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,880
them out you should even consider the

1138
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:14,400
possibility of

1139
00:42:17,750 --> 00:42:16,400
because that would be of much grander

1140
00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:17,760
scope you know

1141
00:42:21,910 --> 00:42:19,760
uh so we should be careful before we get

1142
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:21,920
there to make sure that we exhausted all

1143
00:42:26,550 --> 00:42:24,319
other possibilities now with respect to

1144
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:26,560
gravity waves i should say you know base

1145
00:42:30,390 --> 00:42:29,200
again i'm speaking about what we know

1146
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:30,400
from

1147
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:32,640
the rest of experimental physics you

1148
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:35,040
know to detect gravity waves the ligo

1149
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:36,240
experiment

1150
00:42:40,390 --> 00:42:39,599
had to to build very sensitive detectors

1151
00:42:41,510 --> 00:42:40,400
uh

1152
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:41,520
that

1153
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:42,400
you know

1154
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:46,160
can detect a tiny tiny deviation

1155
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:47,839
you know across

1156
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:50,000
across a distance

1157
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:51,920
of let's say

1158
00:42:55,430 --> 00:42:53,839
five kilometers or so the deviation is

1159
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:55,440
smaller than the size of the nucleus of

1160
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,640
an atom you know it's tiny

1161
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:00,000
and

1162
00:43:05,829 --> 00:43:04,079
you know that kind of a deviation that

1163
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:05,839
won them the nobel prize because they

1164
00:43:09,829 --> 00:43:09,040
detected it in in 2015

1165
00:43:11,829 --> 00:43:09,839
that

1166
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:11,839
was produced by the collision of two

1167
00:43:15,910 --> 00:43:13,760
black holes at the edge of the universe

1168
00:43:19,030 --> 00:43:15,920
and black holes represent

1169
00:43:21,349 --> 00:43:19,040
the most extreme structures of space and

1170
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:21,359
time in the sense that you know when you

1171
00:43:24,630 --> 00:43:23,760
get into a black hole you cannot get out

1172
00:43:27,109 --> 00:43:24,640
of it

1173
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:27,119
uh it's sort of like the ultimate prison

1174
00:43:31,030 --> 00:43:29,520
uh because face and time confine you and

1175
00:43:32,790 --> 00:43:31,040
you're doomed

1176
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,800
to be torn apart

1177
00:43:37,349 --> 00:43:34,560
when you fall to the center of the black

1178
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:37,359
world i once described it because i was

1179
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:39,040
invited to

1180
00:43:42,790 --> 00:43:41,040
the kindergarten where my

1181
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:42,800
daughters were and they asked me to

1182
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:45,119
speak about black holes and of course my

1183
00:43:48,550 --> 00:43:46,720
wife said it's your

1184
00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:48,560
duty to your daughters to speak in front

1185
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,480
of the class about it so i started

1186
00:43:54,710 --> 00:43:52,319
speaking about what happens

1187
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:54,720
to an astronaut when

1188
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:56,480
the astronaut falls into a black hole

1189
00:44:02,230 --> 00:43:57,359
and

1190
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:02,240
said please don't describe it in more

1191
00:44:05,990 --> 00:44:05,119
details because the kids have nightmares

1192
00:44:07,910 --> 00:44:06,000
so

1193
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:07,920
because you know the human body

1194
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:09,760
basically gets torn apart there there is

1195
00:44:14,069 --> 00:44:12,720
no escape from that so imagine those

1196
00:44:16,150 --> 00:44:14,079
extreme

1197
00:44:19,589 --> 00:44:16,160
structures of space curved space and

1198
00:44:21,990 --> 00:44:19,599
time that collide they create a

1199
00:44:23,990 --> 00:44:22,000
storm of space and time near them like

1200
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,000
every like if you had a clock you would

1201
00:44:30,870 --> 00:44:27,119
see the clock you know changing

1202
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:30,880
the dial changes by all the unity like

1203
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:33,280
it shows one time and then

1204
00:44:38,069 --> 00:44:35,599
a completely different time later on and

1205
00:44:40,550 --> 00:44:38,079
so the rate by which time is ticking is

1206
00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:40,560
changing by all the unity relative to an

1207
00:44:44,230 --> 00:44:42,000
observer far away

1208
00:44:47,030 --> 00:44:44,240
close to the collision site

1209
00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:47,040
and that is an extremely powerful

1210
00:44:51,430 --> 00:44:48,960
change in the curvature of space and

1211
00:44:53,510 --> 00:44:51,440
time locally and that

1212
00:44:55,349 --> 00:44:53,520
gets radiated away as gravitational

1213
00:44:56,309 --> 00:44:55,359
waves okay so it's just like dropping a

1214
00:44:59,349 --> 00:44:56,319
stone

1215
00:45:00,550 --> 00:44:59,359
uh on the surface of a pond so close to

1216
00:45:02,870 --> 00:45:00,560
where the stone

1217
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:02,880
hit the pond you get large amplitude

1218
00:45:08,069 --> 00:45:05,040
waves but then they die out as they move

1219
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:08,079
away so we detect it far away you know

1220
00:45:12,470 --> 00:45:10,560
it's a tiny deviation now

1221
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:12,480
you're asking about the uap producing

1222
00:45:16,870 --> 00:45:15,359
gravitational waves well to do that you

1223
00:45:18,950 --> 00:45:16,880
need it to be

1224
00:45:20,870 --> 00:45:18,960
sort of like a black hole for us to be

1225
00:45:23,430 --> 00:45:20,880
able to detect it it needs to be a huge

1226
00:45:25,109 --> 00:45:23,440
amount of mass but we would see actually

1227
00:45:27,430 --> 00:45:25,119
if it was a huge amount of mass

1228
00:45:29,349 --> 00:45:27,440
concentrated in a small region

1229
00:45:31,270 --> 00:45:29,359
it would actually affect us

1230
00:45:33,270 --> 00:45:31,280
through newton's law of gravity forget

1231
00:45:36,309 --> 00:45:33,280
about einstein's theory of generativity

1232
00:45:38,790 --> 00:45:36,319
these waves you would actually sense

1233
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:38,800
the pull from something very

1234
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:41,440
concentrated with a lot of energy okay

1235
00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:43,520
the gravitational pull just as a result

1236
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:45,040
of newtonian

1237
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,280
uh law of gravity you know you would

1238
00:45:51,750 --> 00:45:50,000
feel it and and newton's law of gravity

1239
00:45:54,309 --> 00:45:51,760
is the consequence of einstein's

1240
00:45:56,069 --> 00:45:54,319
equations okay so so they're both

1241
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,079
consistent with each other so my point

1242
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:58,480
is we would notice it just because we

1243
00:46:01,829 --> 00:46:00,319
would be pulled gravitationally long

1244
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:01,839
before we would detect the gravitational

1245
00:46:04,870 --> 00:46:02,800
waves

1246
00:46:06,630 --> 00:46:04,880
so according to the standard description

1247
00:46:08,390 --> 00:46:06,640
of gravity that we see

1248
00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:08,400
you know throughout the universe we see

1249
00:46:12,150 --> 00:46:10,319
the universe expanding according to that

1250
00:46:14,309 --> 00:46:12,160
to einstein's equations

1251
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:14,319
according to that you know there is no

1252
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:17,520
major deviation uh that we noticed uh

1253
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:19,359
tests of einstein's theory of gravity

1254
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:21,680
are all in perfect agreement with his

1255
00:46:25,030 --> 00:46:22,880
equations

1256
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:25,040
so according to that you would first

1257
00:46:28,710 --> 00:46:26,960
feel the effect of newt you know

1258
00:46:31,109 --> 00:46:28,720
newtonian gravity

1259
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:31,119
long before you would feel the effects

1260
00:46:34,309 --> 00:46:33,440
of gravitational waves and

1261
00:46:36,230 --> 00:46:34,319
um

1262
00:46:38,150 --> 00:46:36,240
therefore i you know we don't need to

1263
00:46:40,309 --> 00:46:38,160
put ligo

1264
00:46:42,710 --> 00:46:40,319
as part of our

1265
00:46:44,870 --> 00:46:42,720
detector system and also it's a very com

1266
00:46:46,630 --> 00:46:44,880
you know this experiment cost 1.1

1267
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:46,640
billion dollars to the national science

1268
00:46:50,870 --> 00:46:48,640
foundation we don't you know if we had

1269
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:50,880
the billion dollars we make we would

1270
00:46:55,510 --> 00:46:53,280
make better use of it to look for

1271
00:46:58,470 --> 00:46:55,520
other kinds of signals

1272
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:58,480
now people often talk about you know

1273
00:47:02,069 --> 00:47:00,800
modifications of gravity about extra

1274
00:47:04,230 --> 00:47:02,079
dimensions

1275
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:04,240
once again these are

1276
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:07,040
uh ideas to which we don't have any

1277
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:10,400
evidence from existing data okay and

1278
00:47:14,870 --> 00:47:12,480
it's possible i'm saying you know we

1279
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:14,880
cannot rule it out and perhaps we should

1280
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:18,000
look for that uh as anomalies but

1281
00:47:21,910 --> 00:47:19,599
the first approach should be to

1282
00:47:23,349 --> 00:47:21,920
interpret whatever we see using the laws

1283
00:47:24,549 --> 00:47:23,359
of physics because that's the way

1284
00:47:26,150 --> 00:47:24,559
science is done

1285
00:47:27,750 --> 00:47:26,160
and only when you're pushed with your

1286
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:27,760
back to the wall you can't really

1287
00:47:32,390 --> 00:47:29,760
explain what you see then you should go

1288
00:47:34,309 --> 00:47:32,400
in that direction and that you know

1289
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:34,319
people invest billions of dollars to

1290
00:47:39,030 --> 00:47:37,040
figure out any deviations from what we

1291
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:39,040
know you know the large hadron collider

1292
00:47:44,790 --> 00:47:42,000
is an example for that um and

1293
00:47:47,349 --> 00:47:44,800
we don't find very often deviations it's

1294
00:47:48,710 --> 00:47:47,359
it's quite rare uh and that's why nobel

1295
00:47:50,470 --> 00:47:48,720
prizes are

1296
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,480
not easy to get by you know you really

1297
00:47:55,109 --> 00:47:52,800
need to discover something new

1298
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:55,119
uh so i would say

1299
00:47:58,069 --> 00:47:56,880
let's wait and see what the data tells

1300
00:48:00,790 --> 00:47:58,079
us again

1301
00:48:03,030 --> 00:48:00,800
i i'm not excluding that but i'm saying

1302
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:03,040
it would be of major importance to

1303
00:48:08,309 --> 00:48:05,599
describing the universe if we ever find

1304
00:48:10,390 --> 00:48:08,319
it a new you know and a deviation from

1305
00:48:11,190 --> 00:48:10,400
what we know in physics

1306
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:11,200
yeah

1307
00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:13,040
and now before before we go is it okay

1308
00:48:18,230 --> 00:48:14,960
if i just um read out some questions

1309
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:20,309
if you want to ask quick questions here

1310
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,920
yeah sure um

1311
00:48:24,309 --> 00:48:23,280
i suppose the main question i've been

1312
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:24,319
getting is

1313
00:48:27,910 --> 00:48:26,240
after all of this data is collected and

1314
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:27,920
you can say that this is a genuine

1315
00:48:31,589 --> 00:48:29,760
photograph of something anomalous when

1316
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:31,599
does the public get to see the data or

1317
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:33,839
the image so the only delay would be

1318
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:36,240
caused by us within the galileo project

1319
00:48:39,109 --> 00:48:37,760
trying to make sure that

1320
00:48:40,630 --> 00:48:39,119
you know there is no artifact in the

1321
00:48:42,470 --> 00:48:40,640
data that it's not

1322
00:48:44,950 --> 00:48:42,480
it's a malfunction of the instrument to

1323
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:44,960
make sure that we trust the data

1324
00:48:49,670 --> 00:48:47,280
uh and that often takes a few months you

1325
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:49,680
know it must just to make sure the data

1326
00:48:53,109 --> 00:48:51,440
you know we understand that how the data

1327
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:53,119
was collected and

1328
00:48:58,230 --> 00:48:55,119
that there is no bug in the way it was

1329
00:49:00,230 --> 00:48:58,240
analyzed then we put out a scientific

1330
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:00,240
paper about it and we release it to the

1331
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:02,640
public so it will all be open that the

1332
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:04,720
analysis will be transparent the only

1333
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:06,480
delay is because we want to make sure

1334
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,559
that you know we are not

1335
00:49:11,750 --> 00:49:10,319
crying wolf when

1336
00:49:16,870 --> 00:49:11,760
it's

1337
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:16,880
yeah one final question um will there be

1338
00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:18,400
a capability for

1339
00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:21,040
normal people to to donate their sort of

1340
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:23,200
cpu processing power to help with

1341
00:49:27,109 --> 00:49:25,280
analyzing data like they used to do with

1342
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:27,119
seti back in the back in the early days

1343
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:30,640
well it's a possibility um for now the

1344
00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:33,280
cpu is not an issue for us it's not like

1345
00:49:35,910 --> 00:49:34,240
um

1346
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:35,920
i mean we can deal with it with the

1347
00:49:39,589 --> 00:49:38,160
computer systems that we can purchase so

1348
00:49:41,030 --> 00:49:39,599
really the

1349
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:41,040
the main

1350
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,440
challenge is to get enough money that we

1351
00:49:47,510 --> 00:49:46,079
can build many copies of those telescope

1352
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:47,520
systems you see

1353
00:49:51,349 --> 00:49:48,800
and then

1354
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:51,359
when we estimate based on the reported

1355
00:49:55,750 --> 00:49:53,520
rate of uap when we estimate how many

1356
00:49:57,910 --> 00:49:55,760
telescope systems we need it's

1357
00:50:00,950 --> 00:49:57,920
you know it would be good to to to have

1358
00:50:03,270 --> 00:50:00,960
tens of millions of dollars just to have

1359
00:50:05,430 --> 00:50:03,280
enough telescope systems so 100 million

1360
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:05,440
dollar would definitely allow us to to

1361
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:07,680
get the job done and and by the way 100

1362
00:50:11,750 --> 00:50:09,680
million dollars is not

1363
00:50:13,510 --> 00:50:11,760
a lot of money for a scientific project

1364
00:50:14,390 --> 00:50:13,520
especially dealing with a question that

1365
00:50:16,630 --> 00:50:14,400
is of

1366
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:16,640
so much interest to the public so my

1367
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:18,559
hope is that there would be

1368
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:19,760
a wealthy

1369
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:22,400
donor that will decide that this is

1370
00:50:26,150 --> 00:50:24,000
indeed a priority

1371
00:50:28,069 --> 00:50:26,160
uh that the public deserves to know the

1372
00:50:30,870 --> 00:50:28,079
answer that you know we will definitely

1373
00:50:33,510 --> 00:50:30,880
do a honest job we will make sure that

1374
00:50:35,910 --> 00:50:33,520
everything is open and transparent and

1375
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:35,920
according to the scientific method and

1376
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:38,240
so um if there will be a wealthy donor

1377
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:40,079
that will be excited and then you know

1378
00:50:42,549 --> 00:50:41,599
i'm working on that

1379
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:42,559
then

1380
00:50:46,549 --> 00:50:44,240
we will get the job done within a few

1381
00:50:48,309 --> 00:50:46,559
years i mean this will not take long as

1382
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:48,319
long as we have the funding

1383
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:50,640
yeah sure i really do hope that that you

1384
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:52,079
find the funding that you need for

1385
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:53,760
anybody that happens to be listening or

1386
00:50:56,950 --> 00:50:55,920
watching if you have any millions lying

1387
00:50:58,710 --> 00:50:56,960
around there is a link in the

1388
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:58,720
description to directly go to the

1389
00:51:03,589 --> 00:51:00,640
donation page on the galileo project

1390
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,599
website on the harvard website but avi

1391
00:51:07,349 --> 00:51:05,280
thank you so much for your time i really

1392
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,359
do appreciate it i won't keep you any

1393
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,960
longer to everybody listening and

1394
00:51:13,589 --> 00:51:10,800
watching thank you so much for joining

1395
00:51:14,549 --> 00:51:13,599
us and i will see you all very soon so